Joe Pistone — Retired FBI agent who, as 'Donnie Brasco,' spent roughly six years undercover inside the Bonanno crime family in the 1970s-80s. His infiltration led to over 200 indictments and inspired the 1997 film starring Johnny Depp.
The gist
Joe Pistone walks Joe Rogan through how he went from Naval Intelligence to becoming the only FBI agent to penetrate the mafia with no informant guiding him in. He details building the 'Donnie Brasco' jewel-thief cover, slowly earning the trust of Colombo and Bonanno wise guys, and twice 'marrying' two mafia families together to set up undercover stings in Milwaukee and Tampa. He explains the rules of the life, the constant danger, the hits that followed when his cover blew, and why none of the gangsters he worked against ever became informants. The conversation closes on his decades-long friendship with Johnny Depp, the $500,000 contract the mob put on his head, and how surveillance and the internet have made deep-cover work nearly impossible today.
Big reveals
- A made guy lays a .38 on the table and tells Pistone the only way out of the room is rolled up in a rug unless he proves he's a real thief.
- To survive being called out, Pistone punches the only non-made man in the room because showing he isn't angry would expose him.
- After the Milwaukee sting collapsed because the undercover was a former cop, Pistone's only punishment was being banned from the crew's Christmas party.
- Sunny Black tells Pistone he's been proposed for formal induction into the Bonanno family that December.
- Sunny Black, knowing he's being called to his own murder, leaves his ring and keys at the bar and tells his girlfriend to tell Donnie he loved him.
- The mob commission put a $500,000 contract on Pistone after his cover was blown.
- Bonanno boss Bellastri had offered Pistone the job of running the Las Vegas casino skim to Kansas City.
- After exposure, Tony Mirror was killed by his own nephew for having introduced Pistone to the Bonannos.
Things worth remembering
- Pistone attended diamond and precious-gem school and learned lock picking, safe cracking, and alarm systems to make his jewel-thief cover believable.
- He was undercover for about six years and never once returned to the FBI office, relying solely on phone calls to a single contact agent.
- He kept all his intelligence in his head and rarely wore a wire, dictating everything over the phone for his contact to write down.
- In the entire operation Pistone never carried a gun, because mafia guys only carry a piece when they are going to do work.
- He never drank more than half a beer or one glass of wine and refused cocaine, insisting an undercover must stay himself rather than act like a gangster.
- After the mafia case he also did undercover work for Scotland Yard against the Chinese triads in London.
- None of the gangsters Pistone worked against ever became informants, even after 15-to-20-year sentences.
- Pistone tells undercover classes they must read The Art of War because it still applies today.
- He blames drugs and a 'me generation' mentality for the modern mob's decline and the rise of snitching.
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The Art of War
Sun Tzu (inferred)
“I tell all my in any undercover classes, you got to read that book, The Art of War, because it was written thousands of years ago, but it'll serve you today.” — Joe Pistone 02:14:35Find it on Amazon
Donnie Brasco
Mike Newell (inferred)
“what is it like to see a guy like Johnny Depp play you in a movie. Oh god, what an experience that was.” — Joe Rogan 01:52:58Find it on Amazon