Joe Rogan Experience #2096 - Josh Dubin & Sheldon Johnson

Unlike Dubin's usual wrongful-conviction guests, Sheldon Johnson admits guilt: he was sentenced to 50 years (two consecutive 25-year terms) for robberies in which a victim received two stitches. Johnson recounts growing up as a CODA in crack-era Harlem, being institutionalized at age 10, joining gangs, and turning his life around in prison through education, earning Cornell and Mercy College degrees. Dubin and Johnson dissect the broken criminal justice system, private prisons, prison slave labor, junk forensic science, and the disparate sentencing of people of color. They detail the reform and reentry work they now do together, urging listeners to get involved at the grassroots level.

• Sheldon received a 50-year sentence (later it was 25 years served) for robberies where a victim got just two stitches, far exceeding typical murder sentences.
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• He was offered 23 years before trial, offered to take 15, the judge refused his plea, and after trial he got 50 years from a Black judge.
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• At age 10 he sprayed a teacher who hit students' salted palms with a ruler, was handcuffed, sedated, and sent through psychiatric and juvenile facilities.
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• Johnson says he was molested by a counselor in a juvenile facility and 'learned how to become a criminal' there rather than getting help.
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• Reading Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning in solitary confinement sparked his decision to change his life.
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• He earned his degree through Hudson Link and is now having his master's paid for by formerly incarcerated-run programs.
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• Released with only $40 and a bus ticket, he was initially told he didn't qualify for emergency services after 25 years inside.
  02:02:42

• CIA-linked crack distribution funding Nicaraguan Contras and the 1-to-5 crack/powder cocaine sentencing disparity are discussed as devastating Black communities.
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• Prison labor company Corcraft is a Fortune 500 operation; Johnson was paid 13-19 cents an hour operating machines.
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• Prison-produced goods enter supply chains of Frosted Flakes, Coca-Cola, Gold Medal flour, sold at Kroger, Target, Aldi, and Whole Foods.
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• Up to 47% of incarcerated people have dyslexia or a reading disability, and no Department of Corrections screens for it.
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• A University of Texas study estimated 80% of prisoners struggled with literacy and half were likely dyslexic.
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• A 2009 National Academy of Sciences report found forensic disciplines like bite marks and blood spatter lacked scientific credibility, yet bite-mark evidence is still admissible in all 50 states.
  01:38:36
• Education in prison cuts recidivism dramatically; people earning degrees are 91-92% less likely to return.
  02:28:28
• Roughly 2 million people are incarcerated in the US, more than the population of Austin.
  02:17:21
• Treatment-not-jails diversion programs reportedly save $221 for every dollar spent.
  02:18:25
• Mike Capra, the former superintendent of Sing Sing, was so inspired he retired and now works advocating for incarcerated individuals.
  01:55:49

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